17 January 2004/Transcript

This is a transcription of the 17 January 2004 episode, from Xfm Series 3.

I've Never Kept A Diary

Song: Red Hot Chili Peppers - Fortune Faded

Ricky: Fortune Faded, by er, Red Hot Chili Peppers on XFM 104.9. With Ricky Gervais, Stephen Merchant and Karl Pilkington for the last time.

Steve: Yes, we've said that before, of course.

Ricky: Yeah.

Steve: So don't get your hopes up.

Ricky: No. Yeah, we've had some highs, had some lows. Some laughs, some tears. Karl, you concentrating?

Steve: Lots of tears, mainly from the audience.

Ricky: Yeah. Now er, before we get into that, before we get into talking about, maybe some of the hijinks we've had, looking back. Looking forward, as well.

Steve: Yeah.

Ricky: Er, I came in, Karl was sitting at the desk, he went, "Alright?", I went, "Alright? How you doing?". He went, "Yeah. See that 'Alan Clark Diaries'?", I went, "No, I didn't". He went "Ahh, er, lot of people talking about it. I've never kept a diary. Keeping a diary will always get you into trouble". And I said, "Like Anne Frank". What did you say Karl?

Karl: The woman in the cupboard?

Steve: The woman in the cupboard?

Ricky: And I went, "Save it. Save it".

Steve: Never speak to Karl off air. Save it all-

Ricky: I know.

Steve: -for when we're on the wireless.

Ricky: He went, "But what did she do? What did she do except be in a cupboard? What did she have to write about?". And I said, "Well her thoughts". Do you know Anne Frank?

Karl: That's, that's-all I know about Anne is, there's no point pretending here-

Ricky: Anne!

Karl: -that I know stuff, right? Erm-

Ricky: What does-tell us everything you know about Anne Frank.

Karl: Er, she was in a cupboard.

Ricky laughs

Ricky: Yeah, what else?

Karl: If she didn't do that I wouldn't know about her, seriously.

Ricky laughs

Karl: That's all I know about her.

Ricky: Yeah.

Karl: So what did she do?

Ricky: But what do you, how do you think we know about-we know about her cupboard because of her book. Don't we?

Steve: But hang on, what, what, in the bigger scheme of things, why was she in a cupboard?

Karl: Er, I, I dunno.

Steve: Right.

Karl: I honestly don't know.

Steve: You don't know anything else about Anne Frank apart from the fact that, to quote you, she was in a cupboard?

Karl: But what's she done then? You tell me. Why should I know more about her?

Steve: Firstly, I don't think she was in a cupboard.

Ricky: She wasn't in a cupboard. She was in an attic.

Karl: Alright.

Ricky: Yep. Yeah.

Karl: So what was she doing?

Ricky: She was hiding from the Nazis.

Steve: Tidying up.

Ricky: She was hiding from the Nazis.

Karl: But isn't that the first place they'd look, sort of-?

Ricky laughs

Karl: Work from the top down.

Ricky laughs

Steve: Karl, they weren't specifically looking for Anne Frank.

Ricky: They weren't going, "Where is she?"

Steve: "Where's Frankers?"

Ricky: "If she gets that book out we are in deep shit! We've got to stop the book!". They were just looking generally. I think she, she was-what was she, she was thirteen, fourteen?

Steve: Yes.

Ricky: She was hiding, she was Jewish and she was hiding, this is in Amsterdam, didn't she?

Steve: As much of her family were having to hide-

Ricky: Yeah.

Steve: -being helped by friends, you know, non-Jewish people.

Ricky: In the cupboard. I mean, the cupboard's, you know-

Karl: And how long, you know, how long did she sort of hide up there for?

Ricky: I dunno-

Steve: Until she was caught.

Ricky: -long enough to write a book.

Karl: So she even got caught after all that?

Steve: What do you mean, "so she even got caught"? We're talking about one of the great, you know, humanist tragedies of our times, and you're going, "She couldn't even stay hidden".

Ricky: What do you mean, "Did she get caught?"

Karl: No, I'm just saying, like, you know, it's not a great tip then is it, do you know what I mean? She didn't do it well, she didn't hide until they escaped it. She got caught.

Steve: Her diaries are not a manual on how to hide from people. It's not how to win at hide and seek.

Karl: But I don't know anything about her. And we might be going down a, some ground that's a bit dodgy, I don't know enough about it, maybe it's best just leaving it. All I was saying is, diaries, what do you do them for? Have you kept one Steve?

Steve: Never kept a diary, no.

Karl: Right.

Steve: I can understand your fear that it might get discovered, someone might read it, find out all about your inner secrets. Course, the good thing about you is you tell everyone what you think about them.

Ricky: Yeah.

Karl: Yeah, but-

Ricky: Yeah, no-one's going to find a diary and go, "Oh God-"

Steve: "Karl doesn't like my haircut".

Ricky: Yeah, yeah. "Karl thinks I look like Dave Hill from Slade". "Yeah, I told you that, didn't I? I told you that".

Karl: Do you think they'll last though, diaries and that? No, 'cause they were a bit of a time killer weren't they, they were something to do at the end of the day, whereas now there's iPods and that.

Ricky laughs

Ricky: He's fantastic! The iPod-

Karl: Do you know what I mean?

Ricky: -the iPod of Anne Frank. New from Sony, that'd be great wouldn't it? "All her greatest hits! Who can forget-". Oh dear.

Karl: Leave that then-

Ricky: Shall we leave that?

Karl: -I didn't know it was that deep, I thought it was just like a, you know-

Steve: You thought it was like, didn't you-

Karl: -Adrian Mole type thing.

Ricky laughs

Karl: What are we doing?

Ricky: Play a record!

Proclaimers

Song: The Thorns - I Can't Remember

Ricky: Thorns, from my favourite album of last year, that. And er, I Can't Remember. We'll be doing a bit of that, playing some of our favourite songs. We've er, got a couple of requests in fact.

Steve: Oh really?

Ricky: One of them a celebrity request. Matt Lucas from Little Britain, he's listening in.

Steve: Oh yeah?

Ricky: Er, he said, "Is it your last show?", I said, "Yeah", and I said, "Do you want me to play a record?". He went, "Yeah", I went, "What's your favourite group?". Guess Matt Lucas' favourite group. Now remember, him and David are the new darlings of comedy.

Steve: Yeah.

Ricky: They're cool, they're trendy, everyone loves Little Britain. They're comedy geniuses, they're only going to get bigger. What's his favourite group of all time?

Steve: Erm, that is tricky. Er, Level 42.

Ricky: Er, no. Karl, have a guess.

Karl: Well it's going to be something weird isn't it, if you're saying this.

Ricky: Well.

Karl: So, er, how old, how old's the band?

Ricky: Er, they're probably about as old as him.

Karl: How old's he?

Ricky: Oh, Karl, have a guess.

Karl: Abba.

Ricky: No, it's er-why do you say Abba?

Karl: They're good, aren't they?

Ricky: Erm, no, it's The Proclaimers.

Steve: The Proclaimers?

Ricky: Yeah.

Steve: Really?

Ricky: Yeah. And I know he's listening, but-

Steve: I mean there's nothing wrong with The Proclaimers, I just can't imagine anyone getting that excited about them.

Ricky: I bet that's why he likes you, 'cause you hang out with him don't you?

Steve: I do hang out with him-

Ricky: He's like, he's like the closest thing-he knows one of The Proclaimers.

Steve: Wait 'til he meets my twin brother.

Ricky: Yeah, he's going to have a field day, isn't he?

Steve: He won't believe it.

Ricky: Yeah. So I was honest, I said, "I can't play The Proclaimers". But we'll play him another-

Steve: What-where did they come from? 'Cause I don't really remember The Proclaimers, particularly, from when I was younger.

Ricky: Well, let me give you a little blast.

Ricky sings in a stereotypical Scottish manner

Ricky: But, in two part harmony.

Steve: Of course.

Ricky: That was, that was the main thing.

Steve: But they were very popular for a while, weren't they?

Ricky: I think they had, erm, sort of three big hits in sort of, 1980-when was it?

Steve: Oh, I forget.

Ricky: Yeah. Eighties.

Steve: Scottish. They did sing in Scottish accents, which I thought was quite refreshing-

Ricky: Yeah.

Steve: -didn't do the fake American thing.

Ricky: No, that, that was good, yeah.

Steve: But I just can't imagine being that-when would I be in the mood to put on a Proclaimers record?

Ricky: When you've run out of Krankies stuff, I suppose.

Steve: I guess so, yeah.

Ricky: You've played all your Krankies records, and-

Steve: Yeah, yeah, and the Muppets album.

Ricky: Yeah, yeah. Pop on The Proclaimers. Now, were were talking before the break about, erm, Anne Frank, in her cupboard.

Steve: Yes, yes.

Ricky: Now-

Steve: I'm still a little bit concerned that Karl's not got his head around Anne Frank's diary.

Ricky: Yeah.

Steve: It's not like a children's book, it's not like 'The Lion, Anne Frank and The Wardrobe'.

Ricky: No, no.

Steve: She doesn't go into a fantasy land when she goes into the attic.

Ricky: I'm just glad that Old Mother Hubbard didn't help the Nazis.

Steve: Sure.

Ricky: Because that's the first place she'd have looked-

Steve: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ricky: -isn't it? The Nazis would go, "We've er, we've got a woman over, she thinks she knows where she is".

Steve: Yeah.

Ricky: She'd have gone straight there.

Steve: The thing with Hubbard is, er, if I can just briefly mention Hubbard?

Ricky laughs

Steve: Now, Hubbard goes to the cupboard to get a, I can't remember, is it-

Ricky: Her poor dog a bone.

Steve: She goes to get a dog, the dog a bone.

Ricky: A bone. But when she got there-

Steve: The cupboard was bare.

Ricky: -the cupboards were bare-

Steve: So the poor dog had none.

Ricky: -and so the poor dog had none.

Steve: Is there more to that, 'cause that's all I remember? Is there, is there further verses? Does she finally get a bone, does she go on an adventure and-

Ricky: Oh what, you mean the second verse is, "Then she looked in the fridge and realised that's where she kept the bones and so the dog was laughing"?

Steve: Exactly.

Ricky: No, there isn't another verse.

Steve: There's not-that's all of it?

Ricky: I think so. "Old Mother Hubbard went to a cupboard to get her poor dog a bone, when she got there the cupboard was bare, and so the poor dog had none".

Steve: Had none.

Ricky: No, I think that's the end of it. I think it's a moral-

Steve: That's it?

Ricky: -I think it's a moral that, erm-

Steve: What? What's the moral?

Ricky: Well, er, if you've got a dog, keep some bones in the cupboard.

Steve: Right. 'Cause I always, even as a kid I remember thinking it's quite a tragic, sort of picture they paint. I imagine she's lost her-

Ricky: It's short, isn't it?

Steve: It is short, it's pithy.

Ricky: It's, er-that's amazing.

Steve: But she-I always wondered whether perhaps she's had a nervous breakdown, maybe her husband's died recently, she's just not got any food in. She doesn't really know what's going on, the dog's, you know, yapping away. Eventually she kind of wakes out of this kind of depressed stupor, she goes to the cupboard, there's nothing there. It's just a really depressing, morbid, sort of tale. I don't know, maybe it's originated from something in history, I know Jack and Jill who went up the hill and fell down again-

Ricky: That's a story about illicit lovers.

Steve: That's apparently based on that. And obviously ring a ring o' roses-

Ricky: The plague.

Steve: -dates back to plague times. So I don't know about Hubbard. Erm, Humpty Dumpty, not so sure about this. I-this is another thing I remember as a kid, thinking, "What-at what point was it decided that Humpty Dumpty was a giant egg man?"

Ricky: I don't know.

Steve: Because there's nothing in the actual rhyme, there's no actual-it's not Humpty Dumpty the egg man sat on a wall.

Ricky: My concern is more, if, I mean his parents were a little bit cruel because if you are the Dumpties, of, say, Surrey, don't call your firstborn Humpty.

Steve: Yeah.

Ricky: 'Cause straight away, it's going to be embarrassing for him at school, isn't it?

Steve: Yeah.

Ricky: I don't know what it-

Ricky mumbles the Humpty Dumpty rhyme

Ricky: Is that it as well?

Steve: That's all of it.

Ricky: Oh God-

Steve: And also, I don't mean to be pedantic 'cause I know it's a children's-

Ricky: I assume-is it like an Edward Lear thing, before that, is it?

Steve: But I don't mean to be pedantic again, but if you're gonna-if you've got a giant egg man, and he's fallen to bits, you know, all the king's men, fine, they're there and they can piece that together again. Don't send horses in.

Ricky: No, 'cause they-

Steve: That's just a whole eggy, horsey mess.

Ricky: Not dextrous enough, they're going to make it worse.

Steve: They're just going to be standing on him-

Ricky: They're going to make it worse.

Steve: -it's not a great idea.

Ricky: "You're standing on him, get the horses out the way! Now he's definitely-"

Steve: But again, maybe, I'm sure some of the, you know-

Ricky: It was probably, if it was, is it pre-Lewis Carroll, or? If it's Lewis Carroll, it just came with the illustration.

Steve: I guess so.

Ricky: He gave it someone to illustrate, and goes, illustrate Humpty Dumpty. "Well you've made him an egg!"

Steve: Yeah, a sort of egg with eyes and a face.

Ricky: Yeah.

Steve: 'Cause I suppose, the moral of that is, if you're fragile-

Ricky: If you're an egg.

Steve: -if you're an enormous egg, don't sit on a wall.

Ricky: "Mr. Dumpty, get down from the wall". "I'll be fine". Because I tell you what, there'll be no-

Steve: Accident waiting to happen, frankly.

Ricky: Yeah. I don't know. Karl, what was your favourite nursery rhyme when you were growing up?

Karl: Er, didn't really do that much reading as a kid.

Ricky: You're joking?

Steve: You surprise me.

Ricky: You're joking?

Karl: Er, once-what's the one with, er, loads of people in a bed? What's that one?

Ricky: Oh, there was one in the bed and the little one said "roll over". Yeah.

Karl: Yeah.

Steve: 'Cause that's not even got a story to it, has it? That's just-

Ricky: But hold on though, I'll stop you there. It doesn't even say people. It says there was ten in a bed and the little one, little what? They could be anything. I don't know what they are. Roll over-and they all rolled over and one fell out, there was nine in the bed and the little one said "roll over".

Steve: Now where is the little one, in the bed?

Ricky: I don't know, but I-worse than that, what has he got over the other nine?

Steve: That he can demand that they roll out of bed.

Ricky: Why is no-one getting back in?

Steve: They're just lying on the floor.

Ricky: They just go, "We're here now". I don't know. What-

Karl: Where's that going?

Ricky: He goes, "there was one in the bed and the little one said", again, he just says, presumably he's telling himself to roll over.

Steve: Yeah.

Ricky: "There was one in the bed and the little one said roll over. So he rolled over and one fell out", that's him.

Steve: That's him.

Ricky: There was none in the bed and the little one said "roll over". So now he's calling the shots, presumably, laying on a pile of other-

Steve: Yeah, they're still just rolling around.

Ricky: I don't know, I don't know, Karl. We've got to look into this. If anyone knows why Dumpty was an egg, if Hubbard eventually found her dog a bone, and what was the little one doing? What was the little-what did the little one think he was doing for God's sake?

Karl: When I saw my dad last year, er, he was telling me about one about a fella who's got some clothes you can see through. What's that one?

Steve: You don't mean the emperor's new clothes?

Ricky: Emperor's new clothes?

Karl: Yeah, what's that one about?

Steve: Well that's a genuinely good little parable, that.

Ricky: Yeah, 'cause it's, it's now used for erm, people who are scared to sort of slag something off because it's, it's sort of like really cool and that, and they don't want to be the one that shouts it. And then one person goes "Hold on, I can see through this".

Steve: Very, very briefly Karl, very, very briefly, erm,, the king wants some new clothes, right? He's the king, he goes, "Who's going to make me some new clothes?" Various people come to him, he goes, "I don't like that, I don't like that, it's not interesting enough". One guy, who's just a bit of a con artist, he comes along, he goes, "I've made you this magic suit, look, and it's nothing. Put it on". The king puts on nothing, 'cause there is nothing, but thinks there's something 'cause, you know, he wants to buy into it and everything-

Ricky: And he goes, "This is the finest stitching", and he goes, "Look at it, can you see it? Only a genius can see how good this suit is". And the king goes, "Yeah, yeah, it's brilliant. It's brilliant. It's great". And then he goes out, and just, is it a woman or a little kid-

Steve: Well, everyone is applauding it, going, "You look great", even though his tackle's hanging out, he's, you know, he's nothing-

Ricky: Even though he's got a king sized, sort of, bit of meat and two veg wobbling, dragging down the street.

Steve: Exactly.

Karl: So-

Steve: And then one little boy goes, "He's not wearing anything!"

Ricky: "The king is in the altogether, the altogether". Know that one?

Karl: So, did anyone else buy one, or was-

Ricky: Okay, play a record.

Steve: Play a record, Karl.

Ricky: Play a record.

Steve: Karl. Just play the song.

Ricky: Jesus.

On Hubbard, Debunking Nursery Rhymes

Song: Travis - Writing To Reach You

Ricky: Travis, Writing To Reach You on XFM 104.9. Alright?

{{Steve|Couple of emails here, trying to respond to our requests for, erm, nursery rhyme related information.))

Ricky: Oh, go on.

Steve: Nikki Williams says that she was at infant school, and she had a nursery rhyme book, and the book, in the book-and this may, again, may just be the illustrations. But apparently, the ten in a bed in there were small baby monkeys. Which you'll be loving, Karl. But I, again, I suspect that might just be the illustrations.

Ricky: Illustrators, yeah. I remember I had a book of nursery rhymes when I was little, and er, my brother, who's older than me, I was about five so he was about sixteen. And I remember him and his mate, just absolutely cracking up because it said erm, "Up Jack drop-erm, up Jack got and home did trot as fast as he could caper, he went to bed and bandaged his nob, N-O-B, with vinegar and brown paper". I've since found out that 'nob' is like the old English for 'head'. But I didn't know why they were laughing.

Steve: Of course.

Ricky: They were just cracking up-

Steve: Yeah, yeah.

Ricky: This, this was, whenever one of my mate's brothers came round, he'd go, "Where's your nursery rhyme book?", and he'd read it to them, and it was the funniest thing in the world.

Steve: The er, brown paper vinegar was a popular method, 'cause didn't Jack and Jill use that? They used something similar.

Ricky: No, that was Jack and Jill.

Steve: That's Jack and Jill?

Ricky: Yeah, that's Jack when he broke his crown, which obviously-oh, that means his head as well, doesn't it?

Steve: Yeah.

Ricky: Yeah.

Steve: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ricky: So he's fractured his skull on a sort of outcrop of rock.

Steve: Yeah.

Ricky: And then, er-

Steve: Is that still used, the brown paper vinegar?

Ricky: I don't think it is.

Steve: I don't know, maybe in Manchester they're still using that, I'm not sure.

Ricky: Yeah.

Steve: Er, Tracy and John Burton say that they, er, reckon that Humpty Dumpty was actually a cannon that used to sit on the walls of the castle, er, in Colchester where they live.

Ricky: That makes sense.

Steve: Yeah.